Fire truck 'stop, stop, stop' before deadly LaGuardia crash but didn't know warning was for them: NTSB

The National Transportation Safety Board has published its preliminary report on last month's deadly crash involving an Air Canada jet and a fire truck at New York's LaGuardia airport, concluding communication failures and a lack of transponders in the truck played roles in the collision.

The report, released Thursday, said the truck's driver heard instructions to "stop, stop, stop" over the radio, but did not realize the message was intended for them.

After the initial warning, the fire truck's turret operator heard the controller say, “Truck 1, stop, stop, stop,” and realized the warning was for his crew. By then, the report said, the truck was already on Runway 4 as Air Canada Express Flight 8646 was landing.

The jet and the truck collided seconds after the plane touched down. Pilots Mackenzie Gunther and Antoine Forest were killed, and 33 people were injured, including six who had serious injuries.

The National Transportation Safety Board has published its preliminary report on last month's deadly crash involving an Air Canada jet and a fire truck at New York's LaGuardia airport, concluding communication failures and a lack of transponders in the truck played roles in the collision.

The report, released Thursday, said the truck's driver heard instructions to "stop, stop, stop" over the radio, but did not realize the message was intended for them.

After the initial warning, the fire truck's turret operator heard the controller say, “Truck 1, stop, stop, stop,” and realized the warning was for his crew. By then, the report said, the truck was already on Runway 4 as Air Canada Express Flight 8646 was landing.

The jet and the truck collided seconds after the plane touched down. Pilots Mackenzie Gunther and Antoine Forest were killed, and 33 people were injured, including six who had serious injuries.

I wonder if we could do some sort of virtual ADSB on the ground where it tracks anything on the field and squawks its location?

This would alert about incursions even if the object didn’t have a transponder.

Seems like a great idea, and also would be fairly easy to implement

I wonder if we could do some sort of virtual ADSB on the ground where it tracks anything on the field and squawks its location?

This would alert about incursions even if the object didn’t have a transponder.

Another factor in the crash was the fact that emergency vehicles at LaGuardia were not outfitted with a transponder as part of the airport's surface surveillance system, known as ASDE-X. The system is designed to prevent runway collisions by creating a display air traffic controllers can use to track the movement of every plane and vehicle in real time.

Right, but I’m saying if there was a computer vision system monitoring the runway cameras and transmitting ADSB signals the truck wouldn’t need a transponder. Another system would be broadcasting its position.

What if.... we employed enough ATC and support personnel instead of treating it like a business where the goal is to run on minimum necessary headcount?

But there is a system and it sounds like it works. It just wasn't in place. The problem is not a technical one.

What if.... we employed enough ATC and support personnel instead of treating it like a business where the goal is to run on minimum necessary headcount?

Computer vision is crazy cheap and we can do this alongside transponders.

You are unnecessarily argumentative

What if.... we employed enough ATC and support personnel instead of treating it like a business where the goal is to run on minimum necessary headcount?

God, it's like you don't even care about maximizing profit at any cost at all.

Those transponders aren’t free, and I bet that cost probably factored into why they weren’t there.

A virtual one would cover every vehicle at the airport without having to buy them all transponders, on top of tracking anything else.

Right, but I’m saying if there was a computer vision system monitoring the runway cameras and transmitting ADSB signals the truck wouldn’t need a transponder. Another system would be broadcasting its position.

Eh, I deleted the comment cause I felt I was being an ass about something I didn't know a lot about. That's fair.

Still though, I struggle to understand how "rip out everything and replace it with a different system" is more cost effective than "just put a transponder in the damn truck". You say this was probably a cost cutting measure - you expect the people that cut that cost to now leap at the chance to overhaul their entire tracking system?

Those transponders aren’t free, and I bet that cost probably factored into why they weren’t there.

A virtual one would cover every vehicle at the airport without having to buy them all transponders, on top of tracking anything else.

Cameras won’t work in bad weather when visibility is poor. The answer is to force every ground vehicle that shares any space with aircraft should have a transponder and the airfield should have a working ASDE system. Surely it’s a necessity at an airport of that size?